Curse

Div · Nov 28, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

If you feel a need to grind for PvE titles, then it's time to take a break. I've enjoyed the game regardless of how high my PvE skills are.

cellardweller · Nov 29, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

you don't need to use the pve skills

As long as some players have access to high level pve skills, then yes, they are mandatory for playing Guildwars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Press Release

Guild Wars immerses players in a colorful, robust and detailed online fantasy world where success is determined by player skill, not by the time spent playing.

Right now, there are players with a real competitive advantage over others because of the the time they've spent playing (myself included), and as long as thats the case, we're not playing guildwars, we're playing a pale mockery of what the game once was.

That being said I'm not /signing the petition because I believe the correct solution is to bring PvE skills back into line with ordinary skills but to give them flash animations instead of giving them gamebreaking power.

Zesbeer · Nov 29, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexxor

Guild Wars, not Grind Wars. The original idea with Guild Wars was to promote skills and not endless hours of grinding. Someone playing 1 hour a day should be able to enjoy the game as much as someone playing 8 hours a day.

Add a common PVE Attribute that any profession can access and invest attribute points in. Mix it with a limited grinding only. For example:

Grinding to max attribute 5, attribute points to max 10.

he dose have a point and that beeing that guild wars kind of has be come grind wars sence the intro of the sunspear titles yes its cool to have pve only skills but at the same time i thought the hole point was skill> any kind of grind.

AuraofMana · Nov 29, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

This game has becoming grinding-oriented ever since Factions. I like all the pretty words with: "No level grinding!"
Well, this is WORSE than level grinding. At least with level grinding, you get the small happiness whenever your integer goes up by 1, or more.

"You don't have to have it" is about the most retarded rebuttal ever. Think about it, that's like saying you don't need max level. So tell me this, when you go farm with a team, how come when they ask you to put some runes on and max my attributes, I can't use "I don't have to have it"?

Same thing with title grinding in general. Yeah, "I don't need to have these titles", but what else can I do in this game after beating it 10 times? Most games keep players because they have extreme grinds that are fun. GW has grinds that are NOT fun. All these people talk about WOW having more people as completely understandable because "90% of the people are idiots and they don't appreciate a skill-based game like GW" when GW itself has more grind than WOW right now.

Longasc · Nov 29, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

I think it would be better to get rid of title grind related to the effectiviness of PvE skills.

Personally, I think we should get rid of both and give PvE some more meaning and love in skill development and balancing.

freekedoutfish · Nov 29, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

This game has becoming grinding-oriented ever since Factions. I like all the pretty words with: "No level grinding!"
Well, this is WORSE than level grinding. At least with level grinding, you get the small happiness whenever your integer goes up by 1, or more.

"You don't have to have it" is about the most retarded rebuttal ever. Think about it, that's like saying you don't need max level. So tell me this, when you go farm with a team, how come when they ask you to put some runes on and max my attributes, I can't use "I don't have to have it"?

Same thing with title grinding in general. Yeah, "I don't need to have these titles", but what else can I do in this game after beating it 10 times? Most games keep players because they have extreme grinds that are fun. GW has grinds that are NOT fun. All these people talk about WOW having more people as completely understandable because "90% of the people are idiots and they don't appreciate a skill-based game like GW" when GW itself has more grind than WOW right now.

Go play WoW and then you'l appreciate how little grind GW actually has and how easly Anet gives us things in this game.

Nuclfus · Nov 29, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

As long as some players have access to high level pve skills, then yes, they are mandatory for playing Guildwars.

Right now, there are players with a real competitive advantage over others because of the the time they've spent playing (myself included), and as long as thats the case, we're not playing guildwars, we're playing a pale mockery of what the game once was.

Competitive advantage? I don't think it's just an aesthetic choice by Anet that these skills are PvE only. They are not mandatory. For most of the game's lifetime they didn't even exist. Suddenly they come out and they're linked to titles, and that means now we can't play the game to its fullest without them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

This game has becoming grinding-oriented ever since Factions. I like all the pretty words with: "No level grinding!"
Well, this is WORSE than level grinding. At least with level grinding, you get the small happiness whenever your integer goes up by 1, or more.

"You don't have to have it" is about the most retarded rebuttal ever. Think about it, that's like saying you don't need max level. So tell me this, when you go farm with a team, how come when they ask you to put some runes on and max my attributes, I can't use "I don't have to have it"?

Because ranks in a title and character levels are obviously the same thing, and what a team of other players expect from you is obviously an inherent quality of the game. Note the sarcasm. Clearly you're an expert as far as retarded rebuttals are concerned.

Quote:

Same thing with title grinding in general. Yeah, "I don't need to have these titles", but what else can I do in this game after beating it 10 times? Most games keep players because they have extreme grinds that are fun. GW has grinds that are NOT fun. All these people talk about WOW having more people as completely understandable because "90% of the people are idiots and they don't appreciate a skill-based game like GW" when GW itself has more grind than WOW right now.

Yeah you go play WoW now. Go enjoy having so much less grind than in GW, and don't mind the distant sounds of me pointing at you and laughing.

legion_rat · Nov 29, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I second that, and ive said the same thing in the endless number of posts winging about pve only skill + titles.

You dont need to use pve only skills.

They do nothing except spice things up a bit. You have 100s of alternatives skills to use. You only want your pve only skills maxed out easier because their more powerfull. It has nothing to do with need, its all want.

I dont even have all the pve only skills because I dislike polymock and I cant beat the norn tournament. Do you see me winging and making statements like im disadvantages because of it. Nope!

If you want your pve only skills maxed then work for it, otherwise make do or dont use them. You dont need them to progress.

Well said Fish, I have used them but I dont usually. Its just a bit of spice in the soup.

~the rat~

Hermos · Nov 29, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Sure we don't. Playing the game you paid for is, y'know, optional ;d

HOLY CRAP, REALLY? That's why the OP wants to get rid of PVE skills, because it disrupts his normal lifestyle... Lolz.

/notsigned

draxynnic · Nov 29, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuclfus

Yeah you go play WoW now. Go enjoy having so much less grind than in GW, and don't mind the distant sounds of me pointing at you and laughing.

I've done this argument to death and I don't have the energy to do it again, but this is something I wanted to pick up on...

High-cap (or low-cap large-experience-gap) level grinds like WoW almost certainly do take more time than title grind. I haven't done any experiments to prove it, but that's the impression I get.

BUT...

Title grind is still worse grind, even if it may be shorter.

The reason? Experience treadmills reward you for whatever you do. Apart from walking around stomping mobs that are too low level to present a threat to you, you can do whatever you find to be fun and you will advance. Some styles of play may advance faster than others, but they'll all get you there eventually. You never feel that to advance you need to engage in activities that you don't enjoy just so you can advance. (Maybe so you can advance faster, but that's your choice.)

Title grind, however, only rewards certain specific forms of play. If you don't enjoy those forms, you either suck it up or don't advance. That's what makes it worse then level grind - you could have five or ten times the experience grind and not notice it because you're just playing normally, while the title grind may require to make several repetitions of the same area or otherwise engage in grinding behaviour.

On the actual suggestion... I agree in principle that the current situation is hardly optimal (I think PvE skills should have all been classed and tied to attributes from the start rather than the current 'have a freebie' feel), but I'm not convinced the proposed suggestion would actually help. /abstained

AuraofMana · Nov 30, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Because ranks in a title and character levels are obviously the same thing, and what a team of other players expect from you is obviously an inherent quality of the game. Note the sarcasm. Clearly you're an expert as far as retarded rebuttals are concerned.

I was being sarcastic, good job with your retarded rebuttal.

Quote:

Yeah you go play WoW now. Go enjoy having so much less grind than in GW, and don't mind the distant sounds of me pointing at you and laughing.

Every game is grind. The good grinds are those you want to do. The bad grinds are those you don't want to do but still do because you have invested so much time in them it'd be a waste to stop now.
Ever wonder why more players play WOW than GW if the grind on WOW is so bad?

Vinraith · Nov 30, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

PvE skills are there for people that wish the level cap was higher. They're not necessary to succeed in the game, indeed there's nothing in the game that requires a PvE skill to be used to beat it.

freekedoutfish · Nov 30, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I've done this argument to death and I don't have the energy to do it again, but this is something I wanted to pick up on...

High-cap (or low-cap large-experience-gap) level grinds like WoW almost certainly do take more time than title grind. I haven't done any experiments to prove it, but that's the impression I get.

BUT...

Title grind is still worse grind, even if it may be shorter.

....

Spending days on end mining materials from a hill, fishing for food, skinning animals or finding plants all to craft objects or potions in WoW. Compared to saving up a few gold in GWs and buying something from the merchant!

Spending weeks on end saving up the HUGE amounts of gold required to buy a piece of epic armor from the auction house in WoW or farming it endlessly from the boss with a 0.000001% drop rate. Compared to maybe a few days saving gold and the odd materials to get 15k armor in GWs .

Spending days on end leveling your character just so they are the right level to use more powerfull armor, more powerfull weapons or more powerfull skills in WoW. Compared to GWs where you can use any armor, any weapons and any skills at any level.

Spending days in WoW (alone) killing creatures over and over again just to level up, because you cant find anyone to help you do that one quest which your too low level to do alone and you cant progress unless you do it. Compared to GWs where you can take on any quest at any level and use AI to help you if you cant find a pug and you move to any point at any level too.

Alll those listed above are necessities in wow to progress! All things which are alot easier to access or achieve in GWs because Anet basically gives stuff away.

Titles, in GWs on the other hand mean nothing! The odd few might make some pve only skills more powerfull, but why exactly do you need those maxed out?

So you can do some more damage to destroyers or abaddons minions! WoW! I play Glints challenge with rank1-3 drawfs all the time and we seem to manage and most of them dont even bring alkars acid!

You have 100s of other skills at your disposal instead of having maxed out pve only skills. As for the titles which arent connected to skills, you dont need them maxed. Your choosing to do them.

There is far more grind in WoW which you DO need to do to progress, compared to grind in GWs which is completely optional. Your not forced to grind endlessly for anything, because you dont need the end result to progress ingame unlike WoW.

Likelytodie · Nov 30, 2007, 11:46 AM // 11:46

/not signed

There is nothing in this game that can't be done without the use of PvE only skills, they're just there as an option for the people who have put a little bit of extra work into titles that are optional, and honestly, the ones that actually take a lot of time to make useful (Kurzick/Luxon) aren't much more powerful than most regular skills.

BlackSephir · Nov 30, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

"It's okay cause it's less than in WoW!"
Yeah, right.

freekedoutfish · Nov 30, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

"It's okay cause it's less than in WoW!"
Yeah, right.

Pretty much!

Proff · Nov 30, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

My titles are at 9,8,8,7 from just playing the game in nm and hm. I might have to farm the last rank from 9-10 but otherwise there is no need to FARM the titles so stop coming here with this bs because you want to max the titles easily. And I still have 13 dungeons to do and vanquish the areas, by then ill have them at basically all r10.

BlackSephir · Nov 30, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Pretty much!

Yeah, some people don't give a shit about WoW and it's grind and don't care about that broken argument.
What's next, Tibia?

Arkantos · Nov 30, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

You really shouldn't have to grind to use these skills. Finish the storyline, do some dungeons. You should be r3-r5 in each rep, which is enough to use these skills in NM. Continue doing the storyline, dungeons and vanquishes in HM, where you can get higher rep so the skills are more useful for HM. Playing the game != grind.

freekedoutfish · Nov 30, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yeah, some people don't give a shit about WoW and it's grind and don't care about that broken argument.
What's next, Tibia?

Its called giving perspective and can you not reply to anything with the use of foul language? and explain how its a broken arguement?

Perhaps I should also make a comparison to Tibia (what ever that is) because if its anything like WoW then its relivant. The point I and others try to make, is that we are basically given most things in GWs on a silver platter compared to other MMOs or RPGs.

Max armor is 1k + materials or it can be crafted from collectors.
Max weapons are the same or can be crafted from collectors or you can buy the bonus pack and have instance access to max weapons.
Skills are only 1k each max or you can buy the core skill pack and have all skills in pve instantly available to new characters from any skill trader (even newbie locations).
Some skills are even given as quest rewards in other campaigns.
We dont need to use potions or eat food to increase health.
We dont need to get our armor fixed after fighting.
We can re-skilpoint without paying.
We can use any armor, weapons, skill, missions and quests and go anywhere ingame at any level (except GWEN).
Elite skills are extremely easy to cap and only cost 1k and a skill point.
We can share loot amoungst all your characters for free and easily.
We can move between districts.
We dont need to walk to locations, we just teleport there.
The list could go on....

Not to mention in Factions you level up to 20 extremely fast and have max armor and weapons from Kam (which is reached very early). That also means characters in prophercies and NF can just travel to factions and get max gear sooner then they would in their own campaigns (basically a cheat).

Luxaries like elite armor, green weapons, all titles and pve only skills are purely a choice and should be earned! They are the nice things that we can choose to collect or max out once we have everything else.

Yet people still complain like its not enough that most aspects of the game (which are actually important) are just given to us. They want the luxary items just given out too.

Is it really so bad to have atleast a few things to actually work for ingame?

You have a game there which is extremely easy to play, nothing complicated and which gives you most everything cheaply or for free and you still complain!

Everything you need in order to play is easily achieved. Anything else should be earned!